My Day in Court ...updated
66Know your rights
Part II
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I had my first experience in small claim's court today. I represented myself. The other party came with a lawyer. The acting judge, a substitue, a lawyer, clearly gave more leeway to the lawyer. He allowed the lawyer to question his client freely and ask him any questions that he wished. The judge only allowed me to respond to his question in a yes or no answer. Whenever I tried to answer the question in any other way by adding relevant information, he screamed at me to answer only the question. I backed off and apologized and he literally held his hands over his ears and screamed at me at least four or five times, "Stop talking, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking.
I went into court prepared to accept any judgment that was issed. However, this was a true injustice. I plan to acquire a copy of the transcript and to appeal this case. The sad thing is I feel bullied into hiring a lawyer, which is truly what I believe was intended to happen today. He himself is a lawyer and he wanted to admonish anyone trying to represent themselves in a court of law. Whatever happened to the fact that the government belongs to the people.
This was politics in its truest form. I and my friend accompanying me were appalled at the way that this judge treated me in court today.
I am sure that there are many wonderful human beings who are attorneys; however, today I could understand why there are so many bad jokes about lawyers. This man was in a position of power and he did not know how to handle it. It gives honest and credible attorneys a bad name. How sad!
He clearly told me to stop talking stating that he had other cases to contend with. I did not feel that he gave me my due say and it was clearly not due process. I intend to obtain and send copies of that transcript to the appropriate officials.
I feel that this judge began making his decision before I had even spoken. The lawyer on the opposing side stated something about the photos and the judge stated his agreement and that he was beginning to see that before I even had the opportunity to speak. Again this is in the transcript.
I have written the following letter although I am not yet certain who should receive it.
I made a very serious error today. I went into city court today believing that I could receive a fair trial from an impartial judge.
Today I represented myself in a small claim’s suit whereas the opposing side, my ex landlord arrived with an attorney. The case was filed against me for unpaid rent and damages to a single home in city court in Buffalo, New York. The home had tagged by the local town as being out of compliance. The judge did not yet know this.
The judge allowed the attorney to question his client which enabled the opposing party to state whatever he wished. I on the other hand was firmly told that I could answer only the questions one at a time as they were asked of me often in a yes or no fashion, as when I tried to explain from my point of view,the judge began to scream at me, as he held his hands over his ears, to “Stop talking, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking.” I could only reply in a very meek manner, “I am sorry.” I had never been to court before in my life and did not know all of the protocol. I am an educated woman with a Master’s Degree in Education. I simply do not know law. I would be appalled to tell my students how I was treated in court today. I felt very intimidated and squelched for the remainder of the case.
It seems as though some representatives of law have come to regard their oath of office as a formality to be conveniently forgotten when they become the demigod and treat people in a manner that I would not even treat my worst enemy.
The opposing side handed in photos and the attorney claimed that the mold in the basement of the house I had rented was due to me leaving items in the basement when it was clearly negligence from the landlord. The acting judge immediately stated that he was beginning to see that without me even having said a word yet. There was clearly an absence of objectivity. This acting judge appeared to have personal biases perhaps against an individual representing themselves in a court of law.
The judge did not allow me to have a fair say, as he was concerned with the amount of time that it was taking, as he had “other cases” to contend with. He stated this very clearly to me. I left feeling unheard, prejudged, intimidated, bullied and abused.
I have heard it said that power corrupts. This was clearly evident in the court system today with this acting judge. I actually felt bullied today. This would appear to be the big C word to me, cancer of the system. I believe that individuals who represent our court system in this manner should be held accountable immediately. I feel it is my patriotic duty to report this individual for his intimidating practices and abuse of power no matter the cost to me. This judge had no fear of admonishment for the way that he treated me today. He clearly felt that he was only accountable to his fellow attorney.
I cannot continue to teach my students that a fair and just system of democracy exists when I was confronted with the complete opposite vantage point today if I do not follow through on reporting such abuse of power to persons of authority.
Any great advice from my fellow hubbles?
My Day in Court - Part 2
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Demanding respect???
Well, round two ocurred this morning. I must say that the judge today was much more professional and fair. He has restored my faith in the judicial system in the United States of America. Although I do not have a ruling, I felt that he did not permit any individual to take over his court room. The judge demanded respect but in a calm and courteous manner. He respected that I was a novice and firmly but patiently ensured that I followed protocol.
I will continue to keep all updated as to the results of the case. Again, I thank all of you for your support. Many of you have written to me via email to voice your thoughts and to spur me on. For those of you who responded in the hub, I am extremely grateful.
I believe that the landlord was forced to show his true side and that truth will prevail. It has been my experience that Kharma takes care of each of us with positive or negative consequences depending on our choices.
Outcome
It's funny how your perspective changes over time. My initial response was that I did not win in court as the landlords were deemed victorious in that I had to pay them the back rent even though many of my personal belongings had been damaged due to their negligence. Recall that these landlords had tried to sue me for twice the amount owed to them because I had forced the issue that they would need to fix their home before renting it again, as the town had found many violations in regards to the home not being up to code.
I have come to realize though that I actually did emerge a winner. The landlords were forced to fix their house before renting to another tennant. That took them three months of lost rent to do so and at great expense to themselves. They had to pay an attorney to come into court with them three times I am sure at great expense and at a loss of time for them at their jobs. They had to wait over a year for the money as it took that long to iron out who owed who what. Therefore, sure their neglect and their greed cost me a few belongings that I had stored in the basement, but nothing that will forever alter my life and I did not pay more than I would have for living there. Thus, I must say that their greed and their nastiness did not serve them well; thus, I do feel I can claim a win for the side of good.
Tennants - stand up for your rights. Landlords - be fair. If these people had not tried to rob me of my security deposit - I would have left quietly and they would have had time to fix the house at their leisure without all of the drama. They caused it for themselves with their greed.
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Welcome to the system. These judges are like little gods and can only be removed by voting them out of office. They do as they wish without any accountability. It is very rare to win an appeal...judges don't like to go against each other. I would suggest hiring a "pit bull" lawyer to anyone going to court. These type of judges usually don't keep current with new laws because they are set in office and become lazy.
A good lawyer can make them look like the idots they are. This isn't much help but I do wish you good luck. :)
I agree with MM and Tom. And I agree that you have been bullied into hiring a lawyer. You were treated unfairly, and justice is never served when both sides of the story aren't heard.
Good luck with the appeal. I really do hope that justice is a little better served the next time around.
I don't know too much law, and none at all of US law. But I think lawyers and politicians are the same all over the world. A complaint like the one you contemplate could invite the wrath of the courts ... but an appeal to a higher court would certainly be in order.
Wish you all the best, Trimer7. Do let keep us informed of how it goes.
I will tell you why I am proceeding with this. This was my first time ever in court. Number one the house I rented was out of complaince with town code. I had paperwork to prove that, which at the very end of the proceedings were just about forced on the judge to read. I still have no idea how things will turn out. Even if I win, I am a teacher. I tell my students all the time that the government belongs to the people. I would be EMBARASSED to play the transcripts to my students that a judge could act in such a manner. That makes a huge statement. That judge stole something from me that I want back. I cannot look my students in the eye and tell them to stand up for what they believe and to trust the system if I do not do something about this. I am an educated individual. What about people who are not education? How are they treated? This is very, very wrong. So be it if I have to face some wrath. This system DOES belong to the people - ALL the people. The judges need to realize that too. Thank you for the well wishes and for cheering me on. I am going to need a lot of continued support through this. I plan on posting the transcripts once I acquire them.
I am, among other things, a trial lawyer. I know many lawyers and judges with the highest integrity, and as many who have skills without conscience. I was also a teacher for many years, and the ratio of good lawyers to bad is about the same as I experienced in education. But the experience in court that you described is, unfortunately, not uncommon.
I can't advise you, even though I do some landlord tenant work, principally because the little practice I still do is in Arizona, not New York, and I cannot assume that the laws and procedures are the same.
You say your judge was a lawyer. I don't know how you know that. In Arizona, all of the judges at that level are elected, and none have a legal training. Consequently, none of them like lawyers. And none of them know, or much care about, the law. But in any event, a battle between a lawyer and a layman is not fair: it is their turf, not yours.
There is a particular problem in the landlord-tenant context. Few if any tenants can afford a lawyer, and they have never appeared in that court before. The landlord can afford a lawyer and always uses one. The problem is that, whereas the tenant makes a single appearance, the landlord lawyers are in that court every single day. They have personal relationships with the judge who hears those cases. Of course, there is a bias. All those lawyers have automatic credibility in the eyes of their judge, and you are automatically thrown into the category of deadbeat tenants, which describes almost all the tenants which the judge sees day to day.
However, it is not true that you can never get a fair appeal. The judges at the next level are generally of a very different caliber, and they know about the idiosyncracies of the lower courts, and many of them do have a commitment to the rule of law. So I don't think you should dismiss that possibility. You were wise to get a transcript. However, what I do recommend is that you get a consultation (probably, there will be a fee) with an experienced landlord-tenant lawyer to read that transcript and assess your case. If you're proceeding based solely on emotion, I assure you it will only get worse, and more expensive.
Finally, I don't rule out the possibility of corruption. A few years before I went to law school, I lived in Manhattan. The winter that year was the coldest in almost a century. The landlord to our 5-story building shut off the heat and the hot water. We tenants collectively went to city court. This landlord's crime and cruelty could not have been more obvious. And yet, in court, the landlord giggled the whole time, and the judge ruled for him. It was very obvious what had happened. However, we went to the attorney general, who started looking into it. The next day, the landlord had moved to Brazil.
Good luck. I hope I didn't confuse you more than you already were.
Dear Steve,
You are awesome to take the time to write and try to clear things up for me. The gentleman - if I can call him that - introduced himself at the beginning of the sessions to the whole courtroom and told us he as a lawyer. He told us he was an "acting judge." It was clear that he was learning as he was giving us an overview of the proceedings. He would mumble to himself the proper procedures - skip parts of it - continue on down - read a bit more - the items that he felt were pertinent to us I surmised.
You have given me hope that if this does not turn out in my favor, I will definitely appeal and follow through for my due say. I am going to obtain a lawyer. My son is getting married at the end of this month and I had a lot of expenses. I will be recovering a bit by the time the appeal is through. Although, I felt I had a strong case and should not have needed a lawyer. I was not permitted to give my side fairly and the landlord gave false testimony in court. Now I will know that as well and be more prepared. I want to follow through on this. I feel compelled to do my civic duty and speak out against the way I was treated or I cannot face my students and stand up and proudly state to them that we have a fair system. I would truly be embarassed for that judge who represents our legal system if that transcript were to be played for my students or other students. My fellow teachers are outraged as well.
Again - I thank you so much for taking the time to share and explain. I know there are good judges and good lawyers out there. Unfortunately, I did not encounter one.
Good luck. This is a time in our country's history when us little people need to speak or act out about injustice, win or lose.
Oh, by the way, the best lawyer to consult with may not be a full time landlord tenant lawyer. They make their livings by working for landlords. What you want is a lawyer who will listen and who has done some landlord tenant work. He/she is less likely to be part of the good old boy club at the courthouse.
If you wish to, petition the Federal District Court.State your believe that State Court will and has failed you. The Federal Court is obligated under "due process" and "fair and equal justice under the law". Write the court and be concise, do not plead the whole case. Good Luck! I experienced the same situation and Federal Court allowed my petition. Stand tall and shoulder your rights!
This has been a tough couple of days for me. I have been so disappointed in our justice system. The support that I have been receiving is helping to reset my faith in my fellow human beings. Sorry if that sounds dramatic, but I was truly saddened to be in such a setting and observe a professional, a representative for what I stand for act in such a manner. I wasn't certain if I would tell my students what was happening but today I gently shared with them what I went through with some editing and explained how I intended to handle this through the proper channels. I felt this could be used as a learning opportunity. They need to know that they will encounter such individuals and that there are options. Thank you again. I am appreciating all of the thoughts, ideas and support.
Where is the Justice in the Justice system?
I say go for it..Yeah, lawyers are expensive and basicly have atm machines attached to them. Our judicial system is not set up to really help We the People. Judges have way to much power and they are way to comfortable violating our rights because there is no consequence for them. I myself have had lots of bad expierences with Judges. I'm gonna write a blog about it, but just a quick run down. My ex husband took my daughter, I had not heard from her in days. I had a court order stating that he the father was to bring her back to me on Sunday at 7pm. When I rent to court, our regular judge was on vacation so I had to see another judge. I had filed an emeregency order to see the judge and get permission from him to have the police go to his him and retreave my daughter. This judge did not think that it was a emergency that I did not have my daughter, did not know where she was at, or that I had not heard from her. Since when not knowing where you child is not a emergency? Anyways, sorry I went off on a tagent.. You were bullied.. and I am glad you are sticking up for yourself.. Remember not to vote this judge back in.. When you get a copy of the transcripts file a formal complaint againts him. Also, we all have the right to request a new judge at least once in our case without even having to tell the current judge why or get his or her permissions. They really don't like it when you replace them with a judge that is fighting for their position in the court.
Trimar, I am so happy to see the support you are getting from legal professionals in your country, who obviously know your laws and systems pretty well. My prayers, for whatever they are worth, are with you.
All the very best. I am waiting to hear about the progress you make. It might take time, money and effort, but if you stand tall, with broad shoulders (which I think you have) and with the grace of God, you will triumph. Take care. :)
Hi Jaspal, thank you for touching base. I have been very fortunate to have people who are willing to reach out and help someone they do not even know. The past few weeks were disappointing to say the least and these folks have helped me not only with information but in restoring my faith in people. I am extremely loyal and try not to hurt anyone, which is why I get so disappointed in people who do.
Some courts do not allow attorneys to get involved with Small Claims court. Typically, there isn't much incentive for attorneys to get involved, anyways, as most states have very limited amounts as to what you can recover. New York allows a maximum of $5,000 to be recovered, which is average for small claims, but still not a lot to hire an attorney over. Your ex-landlord's attorney is most likely working on a retainer and frequently represents him. A volume of business equals more profits.
That being said, it sounds like you could use an attorney in this situation.
You will be able to save money by hiring a lawyer just for an hour or two to go over your case. Bring your own copies of the transcripts and print off copies of applicable statutes for review at your meeting. This way, you'll avoid paying a retainer, ridiculous document fees and paying court appearance costs.
One of my friends (an attorney) was telling me how much they charge per page at his firm for clients' photocopies...it is crazy! I did the math and corporate firms like his, can seriously make hundreds of thousands of dollars in photocopying profits per year!
Thank you for the advice girly. I do plan to hire an attorney and will make copies of all ahead of time. I was glad to hear from another fellow hubbie that the next step up conducts themselves in a more professional manner. I was truly appalled at the behavior of the acting judge in my situation.
Just read the Part II Trimar. I don't think that the fees would depend on the whims and fancies of the woman at the desk or even the judge. It should be a standard rate (maybe depending on the number of pages as is the case in India) and it must be laid down somewhere in the procedural rules of the court. You must also get a formal receipt for the payment you make.
Keep your chin up. Be polite and courteous to the court staff, but don't get intimidated - they are doing a job and are paid for it from your taxes.
I would love to hear the Landlord's side of the story
You comment evoked a lot of emotions in me. Of course everyone always has their side. People like that always blame the innocent. I saw those people two times in over three years. The only time I heard from them via the phone was when the rent was a few days late - and - it was only ever a few days late. When I gave my notice, I recieved a bill for the days when the rent was a few days late. Never had I heard a word about a fee from them prior to that time. How does one excuse water pouring into a basemen and mold on the walls of the home? I will tell you, you blame the innocent and let yourself off the hook. You try to find every thing you can wrong and blame the other person. The blinds are ruined - the tennants fault. It couldn't be the fact that they were never attached by the landlord could it? You say the screens were ruined. It couldn't be that they hadn't been replaced since the 1950's and were disintegrating, could it? I could go on and on. Yes, I would love to hear their side as well and be able to respond to each bit of lies they would tell. Thank goodness I no longer have to deal with these unscrupulous people. I have now purchased my own lovely home and take good care of it like I did their property for the entire time I resided there. By the way, I have many many people who would speak for my character. Why is it that everyone always wants to believe that there has to be another legitimate side? In this case, there is none. They are skanks, period!
By the way, these are the same people who told me that when the October storm happened that they were going to claim to the insurance company that the gutters were destroyed due to the October Storm. There were never any gutters on the house. They told me that they were going to claim that the door was also damaged due to the October storm on their insurance. I do not know if they did do so or not. Just the mere thought of it repulsed me. Then they tried to bill me for the door when I moved out. Sure, these are people we should hear their side of things too. It would be pure lies.
hi i hope you get your rulling soon and it is in your faver,
i was once in a county court in england i was sueing my ex employer who made me redundent and then had me working for him as a contractor and then refused to pay me when i got to court he turned up with a lawyer and the first thing he said was would i please agree to not going to court untill a few weeks as he had not had the time to read the paperwork i said no as i had been waiting for 6 weeks to get a court date so we went in and he asked the judge the same question the judge said there was no way he would delay it as he had the same time to get ready as i had had i gave my evedence in none leagle terms and then the lawyer said what he wanted the judge said that my old employer must pay me in full with intrest from the date i carried out the work and must pay it in cash whilst we were in court he gave him 1 hr to go down to the bank and get the cash which he did and to give it to me ha also made him pay all the court costs.
i think i was lucky but most of it came down to my keeping all my paperwork in order and easy to read the judge gave it a quick read and gave his decision, if you ever have to go again i would surgest having every thing in writing and if it is about damage then to have photographs as well from when you moved in to when you moved out.
my daughter moved into a rented apartment and it was not as the agent has stated i took plenty of photographs when she moved in with the time and date on them and when sshe moved out the agent tried to keep her deposite for damage caused when she tol him that it was there when she moved in he wouldent accept it when i turned up with a 7 day letter of intent to prosucate with the county court and the photographs he just accepted he was going to loose and paid up straight away i wondered how many young girls had had to just accept that they were not getting there money back after leaving.
forgot to state my case was in england not usa
Paul - good for you for sticking up for yourself and for your daughter. One thing I have noticed is that people who take the time to write about issues that have happened to them are usually on the right side of things. They are passionate because they are certain they have done what they truly believed in. Thank you for your support. Your daughter is fortunate to have you in her corner. Hopefully people will read about your experience and learn prevention is the key. I sure did.
There are always two sides to every story. I have rented property before and find some odd things in your story. How long did you live there and why did you stay if the environment was so intolerable.
Why is it that the victim seems to get victimized over and over? I rented the house because the house was in my price range and I could still save money for a downpayment on a house. My circumstances had changed and I was in a transitional period of my life. I also had a dog and there are not many houses where my dog could have a yard to run in. The landlords made many promises when I rented the house. The house looked fine on the surface. The landlady had told me about the big bad tennant who had moved out of there who had caused mold in the house. I bought the story. I soon found out though that it was the fault of the neglectful landlord that caused the problem. I avoided the basement. The problem got progressively worse but not overnight. I felt that it wasn't my house so I didn't concern myself about the problems the way that I would have if it had been mine. I had notified them of the problems. I knew that my time there was limited until my job was secure. Once that was the case, I began my search to purchase a home. It took me almost a year to find a house in my price range, did not need a lot of work and near the school for my daughter. I quite frankly think these two landlords (husband and wife) had a system of cheating the tennants. They were not used to an educated individual knowing their rights and holding them accountable to fix their house. I have documentation to prove that the house was out of compliance. The town made them fix it at a fair amount of money out of their pockets before they could rent it to someone else - as it should be.
I am hoping that you are being defensive as you have been a good landlord. I too once owned rental property and feel that I was a good landlord. Trish, that is not true of everyone. I still do not understand your concern. You made a statement of doubt but you didn't explain your issue.
You get what you pay for. It sounds like you were poor and couldn't afford much. You still didn't mention how long you lived there. I am certain after a year you would have had enough and moved out, since the place was intolerable. Typically landlords do not go to court unless they are owed back rent or damage is done. Usually an eviction is involved for things to proceed that far. I do not rent my properties anymore because tenants are a real problem. Most do not care about someone elses property. I am not saying you are like that, but most are. I had to evict a few tenants in the past and they all claim to be the victim. How many other properties do these people rent out in your city? I sold my properties. I am sure the landlord will tell a much different story than you.
I was not poor. I was living within my means. I actually consider myself a very rich person. I have many, many blessings.
I lived there for three years. I had anticipated being there a year. It took that long for my job to become permanent, which was not anticipated. The area that I live in has an abundance of teaching colleges and I am in a top school district, with limited permanent positions available.
The landlords went to court and claimed damages as they were retaliating against me because I held them accountable to the town for fixing their property. I saw them two times in three years. Once for the October Storm and once when I told them I was moving out and they came trying to blame me for their water problems in their basement. They were trying to blame me for the storm door coming off the hinges. The wind took the door off a door jam,the first winter that I lived there. The landlady told me she was claiming to her insurance company that the October Storm was the cause and that the gutters were damaged as well. I knew then the type of individual I was dealing with. They left me to clean up more than 30 trees in the backyard, which I did. I installed a sump pump and only charged them for the part. They lived out of the area and I tried to be a good tennant and not have them have to drive in for things that I could handle.
The place was not intolerable. It was unacceptable. The water began seeping into the basement in the crack that I told the landlord about and they continued to ignore. I didn't want to cause too much conflict as I did not want to have to move until I purchased a house. I had no idea that would take three years. Things just happen sometimes and we endure. When I gave notice, the landlords, who had always told me I was a good tennant, all of a sudden turned the tables on me. I received a list of dates when she said that the rent arrived late in the mail; thus, I owed late fees. She went back three years. That was the first I had ever heard that I owed for late fees. They tried to say I broke the toilet, destroyed the joists in the bathroom, etc. I held back the rent until things were fixed properly. The town backed me up. I had to pay back the back rent but they did not get away with accusing me of damages. There were none due to me. I had put up wallpaper in the kitchen, at their suggestion. I never billed them for paper or for labor. They tried to charge me for new wallpaper. I could go on and on. Quite frankly, I appreciate the interest but I am not going to justify this any longer. I lived it. I know who created the ugliness. They were resentful that they could not take me in the same way as they did other tenants. I wrote the blog to help other people. I know some people will choose to believe me and others may not. I am the one who has to face myself in the mirror each morning. I am a person who stands strong on principle. I live to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Those who know me intimately know this with no question. The second (professional) judge agreed with me in regards to the damages. He and I agreed that I would pay back the back rent. Although, I had some misgivings, as the water in the basement caused the utilities (sump pump, damage to my laundry machines, heat, etc.) to be much higher. I just want the matter behind me. Trish, you have just further reinforced to me with our exchange that I am comfortable with the way I handled the matter.
I can only assume from your response that you were evicted for the back rent owed. An attorney will not take a case to court unless the landlord had reasons and backup to justify them. Usually the tenant wins in court. I wouldn't be afraid to bet that the landlord had photos and other documentation to back up his claim. I have gone to small claims court twice without an attorney and won both times. One of those times the other party had an attorney. Of course, these were unrelated to my rental properties.
I am very curious what the $$$ difference was in the amounts of the judgements on you. I would guess if was fairly close.
Did you counter sue? Sounds like a smart lady like you would have. Hm-m-m
If the landlord was allowed to keep your security deposit, the judge must have thought there was damage. Usually your deposit is first and last months rent. Which is probably a substantial amount. Therefore, it would lead me to believe the judge agreed you were responsible for some of the damage.
As you must know if judgments are not paid right away, the landlord could have the courts put a lein on your property until the judgements are paid. If the landlords are as awful as you claim, they could have your wages garnished. Also, there is usually a annual interest rate involved, which could be tacked on top. (depending on what state you are in). At least they do in FL where I live.
I know you don't want to justify this any longer. Could it be because I may have made some valid points????? I won't bother you anymore. I just sounds like you gave your landlord their day in court (this blog) without them offering a defense. I guess they are victims just like you. As I said before, there are always two sides to every story. We only heard yours.
Trish, for some reason you seem determined to make me the heavy. I am not sure what your motives are. I would not deny the landlords a chance to have their say on my blog or otherwise. The landlord was able to keep the deposit as the judge ruled that was for the late payments for the rent as it took a year to settle this matter. I do not know if you are not reading what I have told you. I HAVE documentation that the house was out of compliance. The judge did not award any damages. I did not take an attorney in with me and did not play the whole thing smart enough as I am not savy in the ways of the law. I am now learning that I could have submitted bills to the landlord for back monies owed to me for my excessive utilities; I could have billed the landlord for installation of the wallpaper, I could have billed the landlord thousands of dollars for clean up for the trees that they left me holding the bag for. I told you how the landlords intended to cheat the insurance company. I just am not that kind of person. I truly now just wish to put this behind me. If you choose not to believe me, that is your perrogative. If you personally know these people and they want to have their say, so be it. I welcome their comments. However, again, I do not understand your investment in this matter.
I truly intended not to reply to you any more, but you seem to be victimizing me for questioning your blog. How could I know these people personally? I really wish I did!!!
I'm sorry you find it distasteful that I find concerns with your story.
I came upon your blog totally by accident. I was looking for something very different. The title interested me for some reason, so I decided to read. There seem to be too many "holes" in your story if someone takes the time to read it carefully.
You must have not paid rent for a very long time if the whole deposit was for late payments. No wonder you were evicted (which you do not deny). Wow! If there was that much in late payments, They should have evicted you long before they did.
The biggest thing I have difficutly believing is you living there long after the problems in 2006. That makes two years you lived there with all those nasty issues. If you could afford rent there, you could have afforded it elsewhere. If you kept the place in such wonderful condition, you would have had your deposit back if you moved earlier. Hard to believe. If the house was out of compliance it should have been condemned. Especially if there was all that water pouring in. Why wasn't it? You never answered the question about their other rental properties. Do they have more apartments or are they inexperienced landlords?
My only interest in you is the fact that your story sounded invalid. From evil landlords, rude judges, nasty city workers, etc. You should write romance novels.
I told you I moved as I purchased a home. One day leads to another. I knew that I was looking for a house for over a year. I told you the house was not intolerable it was unacceptable. A house does not need to be torn down when it is unacceptable and out of code; it can be fixed. You are choosing not to read and feel the need to be right. I am not certain why. You like to make yourself the victim. If I am not mistaken, this was my blog - right? - NOT - yours. I was sharing my experience with others in order that they could learn in order that they did not become victims. You responded - see above - with doubt from me and accusing my story of having holes without caring what my side was. You do indicate that you are a landlord. You want to see it only from your side. Perhaps you do not want to empathize with the tennants. This is something that you must live with. I am quite at peace with my actions and decicisions. I did answer all of your questions and you still accuse me of not doing so. These people do have other properties and keep an attorney on retainer. They are experienced at trying to take advantage of vulnerable people. They DID NOT win the case. They were suing me for double what they received. I did hold back two months rent, which they are now being paid plus the late fee penalty. The judge decided that they were entitled to their rent ONLY - NOT damages. The judge believed ME - in spite of their attorney being present! I said it all along to people that I wouldn't be surprised that I would have to pay the back rent. I did not want to pay the late fee. I gave my arguement. The judge tried to be fair from all sides. I didn't feel they were entitled to the late rent fee. The judge saw it otherwise. What can I do? So be it, I feel I won, they had to fix their house and the next tennat will not need to endure what I did so it was worth what I went through. Your last comment shows me who I am dealing with - someone with a bit of a nasty side to them. I am sorry for you Trish.
Sounds like you lost to me!
Trish, after this I am done responding to you. You need to be right no matter how many ways I tried to explain this to you. I think I am the one who hit a nerve. You are obviously a landlord who does not want to see the tennants side of things. I know from experience that self-righteous people are never going to see it any other way no matter how many facts or details are explained to them. The judge saw it somewhere in the middle, which is why he only gave the landlords their back rent with a penalty for withholding the rent. He did not award them any damages. I can only explain the situation from my viewpoint, which quite obviously is my side of the story, which I have a right to offer my view. If the landlords want to get on the Internet and write things from their viewpoint, they have the same opportunity. I did not deserve your rantings and nasty comments. That is something you have to live with.
Too bad, Trimar, your first exposure to the legal system was so unpleasant. I don't think the process was designed to be that way. Small claims court is intended to simplify the handling of lesser disagreements and not to eliminate the need for an attorney. As you stated in your hub “I had never been to court before in my life and did not know all of the protocol...I simply do not know law.”
I think, however, that there may still be a valuable life-lesson here for your students should you choose to share your story with them. Doctors and lawyers are professionals that one should never approach unnecessarily. However, should you ever find you need one, be sure to get the best!
I wish you luck on your appeal but don’t rely on it for success.
Q.
Quilligrapher, thank you for your nice comments and well wishes. I do share my story with my students to let them know that they will encounter professionals of all levels and all calibers in their lives. I have shared with them that they have a right to speak out for themselves - in a respectful and lawful manner. I told them about my first encounter and how unprofessional the first judge was and I told them how professional the second judge acted. I told them that they may not win or that things may be viewed somewhere in the middle as it happened for me, but they should know that they have a right to express their views.
I have to teach about the three branches of the government, which is a great time to share my story. I tell them that I had to accept the decisions of the law and how I had the right to appeal, which I did. When the decision came down from the more respectful judge, I could accept the decision even though I may still not have agreed with him. I also feel that I was not savy in the ways of the law and should have billed the landlords for the items I mentioned above. This was due to my inexperience, as I had never had an encounter with the law prior in my life. I should have retained an attorney but I just bought the house and was trying to save money.
I teach my students to be honest and not to worry about people who are ignorant, judgmental and one-sided in their thinking.
I am quite at peace with my actions and decisions. I now have my own beautiful home. I know that the tennants who now live in the house that I was in do not have to endure no gutters, cracked basements, etc. as the landlords were forced to repair the home up to town codes. I hope that my blog teaches people who are tennants that they can stand up for themselves or for other tennants. I belive that this woman who responded to me is a landlady and wants tennants to be fearful of standing up to their landlords. I have not even posted all of her comments, which got downright mean questioning my teaching practices, which had nothing to do with my blog or my experience, and hoping for other mean things to happen to me. I will no longer give her a forum to try to intimidate others.
If I had it to do over again, I would do it again the same way. I hope now that perhaps my story will help tennants to have the confidence to stand up for themselves also. I am a person who stands on priciple, thus, I can sleep at night and look at myself in the mirror in the morning. It is not always the self that benefits but others. That truly makes me happy. I know I have the respect of my colleagues, the parents of my students, many friends and a wonderful family.
trimar7 says:
26 hours ago
Quilligrapher, thank you for your nice comments and well wishes. I do share my story with my students to let them know that they will encounter professionals of all levels and all calibers in their lives. I have shared with them that they have a right to speak out for themselves - in a respectful and lawful manner. I told them about my first encounter and how unprofessional the first judge was and I told them how professional the second judge acted. I told them that they may not win or that things may be viewed somewhere in the middle, as it happened for me, but they should know that they have a right to express their views.
I have to teach about the three branches of the government, which is a great time to share my story. I tell my students that I must accept the decisions of the law. I share with them the right to appeal.
I feel that I was not savy in the ways of the law and should have billed the landlords for the items I mentioned above. This was due to my inexperience, as I had never had an encounter with the law prior in my life. I should have retained an attorney but I just bought the house and was trying to save money.
I teach my students to be honest and not to worry about people who are ignorant, judgmental and one-sided in their thinking.
I am quite at peace with my actions and decisions. I now have my own beautiful home. I know that the tennants who moved in after me and now live in the house that I was in do not have to endure the lack of gutters which led to icy, dangerous porches, cracked basement walls, etc., as the landlords were forced to repair the home and fix it up to meet with town codes.
I hope that my blog teaches people who are tennants that they can stand up for themselves or for other tennants. I believe that this woman who responded to me is a landlady and wants tennants to be fearful of standing up to their landlords. Perhaps she is fearful that she will be forced to fix her buildings. I cannot say for certain. I truly didn't understand her hostility otherwise. I have not even posted all of her comments, which got downright mean. She began questioning my teaching practices, which had nothing to do with my blog or my recent experiences. She stated that she was hoping for other mean things to happen to me as well. I will no longer give her a forum to try to intimidate others.
For those of you who are renting - please know that the landlords can be held accountable. You do not need to live in a home that has conditions that are not acceptable to you. Call your town building inspector. Call your county health department. You do have rights.
If I had it to do over again, I would again go up against the landlords. I hope now that perhaps my story will help tennants to have the confidence to stand up for themselves also. I am a person who stands on principle, thus, I can sleep at night and look at myself in the mirror in the morning. It is not always the self that benefits but others. That truly makes me happy. I know I have the respect and trust of my colleagues, the parents of my students, many friends and a wonderful family. The others who want you to falter just simply do not matter.
Trish - I am going to ask nicely that you cease posting comments on my blogs that feel like attacks. You seem to feel the need to be right. I politely responded. You chose to do otherwise. I have saved your postings even though I did not approve them as you are saying things that are inappropriate and unrelated. I would not have minded you not agreeing with me but attacking my professional ethics does not enter into this and was over the top, which you did and I have the comment saved to prove it. Please move on. We just do not agree on this matter. It is something that we just have to agree to disagree over. It has been six months since you last commented and now you start with me again - why? I do not understand your obsession with this. I wish you only wellness and happiness.
Dear trimar7,
I also experienced small claims but as the plaintiff. I won, but not the treble damages I think I was DESERVED for an apartment that was egregiously UNSAFE and without process fee I paid.
The defendant countersued, a real slumlord who has yet to return my damage deposit I fought for and won.
Anyway, different case. However, I was told I was LUCKY to win at all because supposidly Colorado's courts have HEAVY BIAS to landlords. Perhaps this is true in NY also.
Good luck!
The government has never belonged to the people.
Mighty Mom 2 years ago
Dear Trimar. Your experience sounds awful. Not unlike an episode of Judge Judy when she clearly favors one party and tells the other one to shut up -- repeatedly.
It is a shame that people can't represent themselves in small claims court. I thought that was supposed to be the idea -- that for the small amount of money involved attorneys would not be necessary.
In my experience, the best preparation for any court confrontation is to KNOW THE LAW. I have had reason to research landlord/tenant law and found some interesting things that were not what I would have (logically) expected. Not knowing the specific details of your case, it's hard to know the merits of the landlord's claims against you. I do know that withholding rent is a big no-no and not supported legally -- but that could be different in the state of NY.
Good for you for getting a transcript of the trial -- oops, I mean court appearance. I do hope you are able to get justice.
Meanwhile, at least you got a good hub out of it! Thanks for writing. MM